Please take some time to read this, will you?

"LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"


"Yes, sir."


"So you believe in God?"


"Absolutely."


"Is God good?"


"Sure! God's good."


"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"


"Yes."


"Are you good or evil?"


"The Bible says I'm evil."


The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"


"Yes sir, I would."


"So you're good...!"


"I wouldn't say that."


"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would if we could....God doesn't."


[No answer]


"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"


[No answer]


The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. "In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"


"Er... Yes."


"Is Satan good?"


"No."


"Where does Satan come from?"


The student falters. "From... God..."


"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking student audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"


"Yes, sir."


"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"


"Yes."


"Who created evil?"


[No answer]


"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things - do they exist in this world? "


The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."


"Who created them?"


[No answer]


The professor suddenly shouts at his student, "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the Christian's face. In a still small voice, he asked, "God created all evil, didn't He, son?"


[No answer]


The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the world, isn't it, young man?"


[No answer]


"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and


whispers, "Is God good?"


[No answer]


"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"


The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."


The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"


"No, sir. I've never seen Him."


"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"


"No, sir. I have not."


"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus... in fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"


[No answer]


"Answer me, please."


"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."


"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"


"No, sir."


"Yet you still believe in him?"


"...yes..."


"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God now?"


[The student doesn't answer]


"Sit down, please."


The first Christian sits...defeated.


Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"


The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, yet another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."


The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"


"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."


"Is there such a thing as cold?"


"Yes, son, there's cold too."


"No, sir, there isn't."


The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The second Christian continues.


"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 273 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than -273°C. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."


Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.


"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"


"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting at...?"


"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"


"Yes..."


"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light... but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker and give me a jar of it. Can you... give me a jar of darker darkness, professor?"


Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point is, young man?"


"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your conclusion must be in error...."


The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!"


"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"


The class is all ears.


"Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability himself. He waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.


"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. "That for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, merely the absence of it." The young man holds up a newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"


"Of course there is, now look..."


"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't evil the absence of good?"


The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily speechless.


The Christian continues, "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work through the agency of evil.1 What is that work God is accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free will, choose good over evil."2


The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as being part of the world equation because God is not observable."


The Christian replies, "I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is probably one of the most observable phenomena going, Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"


"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."


"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"


The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare.


"Professor. Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"


"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.


"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"


"I believe in what is - that's science!"


"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a premise which is flawed..."


"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.


The class is in uproar. The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give you an example of what I mean?"


The professor wisely keeps silent.


The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's mind?" The class breaks out into laughter. The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's mind... felt the professor's mind, touched or smelt the professor's mind? No one appears to have done so." The Christian shakes his head sadly. "It appears no one here has had any sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever. Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the professor has no mind."


The class is in chaos.


The Christian sits.

Please take some time to read this, will you?
Okay, lets start of why the idea of the professors mind thing. You can see the professors mind! We hear him speak, his words are an indicator that he has a mind, his actions are an indicator that he has a mind, the professor has a mind the fact that he can communicate with us tells us he has a mind! You can say that God too has a mind because his words are in the bible but the difference is that we can actually SEE a professors mind in action, we see it forming words, and expressing ideas through speech and we can know for sure that they are his words we are hearing, and not someone else's.


Then the evolution thing, I can't even begin to describe how wrong that is! You can't see evolution happening!? are you sure about that? that assumption is wrong as can be. There's plenty of fossil evidence out there, that lets you see evolution even transitional fossil evidence! Look up the evolution of the horse, enough fossils from it's various stages of it's evolution have been discovered that if you line them up chronologically you can SEE evolution!


Also, another instance that proves your assumption false is in bacteria. Ever heard of bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics? Bacteria reproduce quickly, going through several generations in just a few seconds, in this case you actually can SEE evolution as it happens before your eyes, as old generations die off when exposed to the antibiotic and new ones are born that are resistant to the antibiotics repeat this over several generation and you get super bacteria, ever heard of super-bacteria making people sick! Those are a product of this evolution!


Then, Cold and Darkness being the absence of something and not something itself. Um...yeah so what, it's common sense that cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light, no one has ever said that it's not. You somehow imply that this proves that Evil is only the absence of Good. That is flawed as well, because life is neither evil or good, life is neutral what's evil and what is good is subjective and depends on your culture. For example, in some middle eastern countries it's not only acceptable but encouraged for a man to have several wives, for them that's good. For someone like you that, would be evil, it's all based on culture. Life is neutral, neither good or evil. Good and evil are just matters of opinion.
Reply:Do you wish me to abandon my atheism and crumple at the mercy of God? Or the belief thereof?


I shall not make any presumptions. What I shall do, instead, is provide a concise critique.





To begin with the atheist professor utilises one of the worst arguments conceivable. His is the sort of atheism that comes from personal dilemmas (here it seems this is the death of his brother). In my case if I were to concede there were a God (in a strict 'ad absurdum' manner) I would make no claims on evil. This is the sort of argument that goes (please ignore if you suffer from low self-esteem)- 'you crapped this morning- it came out of you so you are crap!'





As for the student (the cheeky one), his entire proposition of presence vs absence falls for I have rejected the premise of the professor. He cannot use it for anything more than incentive for the agnostic.


(remark: it is true in saying that 0K is the absence of any heat, the Kelvin measure is one of energy)


As for his other argument against observation, let me point out that science is not some quest for observables. Science is all encompassing- the best example is mathematics. It can have nothing to do with reality! Science merely studies reality through the feedback of observations because we are inherently interested in our own existence and peripherals of such. As for evolution the case has already been made and I suggest reading Dawkins for those who may be interested.








edit- perhaps this wasn't worthy of my abstractions after all, the first answer counters everything in a very standard manner.
Reply:You paint a caricature of the professor, and his arguments. Every scientist knows that cold is the absence of heat, that darkness is the absence of light. No scientist or professor that I have ever met is unaware of that.


But your premise relies on some sordid axioms. All goodness comes from God, that human beings without God are incapable of making moral decisions. Moreover, the only reason they cannot see the professor's mind, is because to cut open his head would be murder. His mind is identifiable. Cognitive Science is leaps and bounds beyond what you seem to think it is, as we not only understand the chemistry of thoughts, we understand how to link them with mechanics in order to create a mechanism to allow paralyzed people to move objects on a screen with their mind.


So, all in all, I'd have to say your argument is a complete bust. Most of it is rhetoric favoring your paradigm--you go as far as to paint the professor as wicked, with a crooked finger. How dualistic is that? Moreover, Christianity professes a very dualistic belief in God and the Devil. Two diametrically opposed forces, one of good and one of evil. Nowhere in all of the bible does it say that evil is just the absence of good--no, you stole that idea from Lao Tzu, rather than from Jesus Christ.


So thanks for wasting my time.
Reply:WOW! This is excellent!!! Where did you get it?


I think it really proves how flawed science is. Especially when you are talking about God.





It proves that the laws of science are really flawed, compared to the bible. Yes, the bible. The bible is where we learn about God, where we learn HOW to be like God, and many more.....





Great story, it's really nice. BRILLIANT!!!!
Reply:oh i saw this somewhere before, thank god, because as i was looking over it i was like "damn this is long! moving to another question". Anyway, i loved it and the boy just came off as sooo intelligent to me, which he obviousluy is. But seriously though, it really gives you a good lesson about faith %26amp; god. thanks for posting.